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Triumph Cold Starting a Hinckley Bonneville

This is a discussion on Cold Starting a Hinckley Bonneville within the Bonneville forums, part of the Classics category; Sorry all. I've seen sooo much incorrect advice, magic potions, voodoo and philosophical / metaphysical renuminations on how to get ...

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Old 02-15-2010   #1
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Cold Starting a Hinckley Bonneville

Sorry all.

I've seen sooo much incorrect advice, magic potions, voodoo and philosophical / metaphysical renuminations on how to get a modern carbed Triumph Bonneville/Thruxton to start, so I cannot resist any longer...

1.) Cold starting definition - anything below say 40 degrees Farenhiet (4.5 degrees C).

2.) Cold starts - the engine case is cold, carb is cold, manifold is cold, so much of the air/fuel mix doesn't atomise correctly, so you will need a very "Rich" mixture, somewhere around 6:1 or so.Until she runs awhile and warms up.

3.) The Bonneville has Carburtetor "De-Icers", which are not to be confused with heaters, and have absolutely, positively zero (nothing) to do with cold starts. So fuggetabowdit.

4.) Keihin carburetors utilise a Cold start "Enricher", which is an additional "spurt" of fuel. The Keihins do not have a conventional "Choke", as in a butterfly closing off the venturi to only allow the accelerator pump - which the Keihin does not have - to spray raw fuel in the manifold. Therefore say "Enricher", not "Choke" from now on.

OK, those facts beknown, lets move forward...

A.) Make sure your idle speed is set to the lowest allowable. The idle speed set screw works by opening up the throttle butterfly slightly, allowing more "air", and a higher idle speed. "Air", we do not want in this case of a cold start. We want lots of raw fuel, little air. Also, never touch nor twist the throttle grip, which only opens and closes the butterfly, having zero to do with fuel addition, but instead allowing more "Air" (bad for cold starts) in.

B.) Pull the "Enricher" Knob fully out. Hold the bike up balanced horizontally, not tilted on the kick stand. This allows both float bowls to be exactly even, and helps.

C.) In very northern climes (say Illinois / Missouri / Indiana) on up, you may want to consider #42 pilots (stock is #40). These give a little bit better rich mix at start. You'll need to readjust the mixture screws, or MPG will suffer slightly.

D.) I give the bike a little side-to-side shake just to ensure the floats are unstuck, and the needles are wet.

E.) Press starter... Varoom, she should start. If not, something listed above is wrong.

F.) If no-start, and you tried everything above, your floats are probably set too low. Re-adjust per Manual.

My bike wouldn't start above around 45 degrees F (7.2 Degrees C) when brand new. An "Expert" dealer mechanic worked on it three times (warranty!!!) to zero improvement. In the end, he said it was because of "Cheap British gas". The bike was built in Thailand (2007), and the Petroleum Industry in Great Britain would also be disappointed to hear such comments. He also opined that "They don't have cold winters in England, and these bikes weren't built for it", an odd, enlightening and very unique perspective. (I've since changed Dealers and now feel significantly more confident in their abilities.)

I rejetted to the #42's, re-adjusted the mix screws, and followed the common sense approach as noted above. Since then, she has never, ever failed to start first time, and in northern Illinois cold such as zero degrees F, sometimes -5 or so.

Always remember, the bike wants lots of raw fuel to compensate for poor atomisation and condensation of the fuel on the cold walls of the carb, manifold, and cylinder head runners, and little air velocity, until the manifold and cylinder head walls heat up, then things go back to normal. Anything that allows more air (throttle/butterfly opening) or less fuel (small jets, low set floats) when attempting to cold start will make it difficult, if not impossible.

Lastly, don't forget to push the "Enricher " Knob back in after 2 or 3 minutes of running - it's not automatic, and you'll continue to run rich if you leave it out.

Ride safe (after she starts!)

Bob

Added on December 20th, 2010:

One more item to consider. Hinckley Bonneville's - assuming you haven't raised the compression ratio significantly, as in up to 11.5 to 12.0 : 1 -run on 87 to 89 Octane fuel. I see where many feel that adding 93 octane (premium) is a "good" thing, and makes their bikes faster, increased fuel economy, better this n' that, etc. All of which is scientifically, thermally and chemically impossible, but there you go.

You may want to reconsider at least for the winter months - ala <40 degrees F, or <5 degrees C.

Read in this Forum the Innovation Center/Down at the ol' Fillin' Station thread about the effcts of the slow burning premium fuel being used in a fast burning designed low compression (9.2:1) motorcycle engine. The pre-programmed ignition system is looking for a faster burning fuel to ignite at a precise timing interval, and "premium" devotees have provided a slow burning, higher octane fuel. A recipe for a poor start. That said, try using the OEM recommended fuel, and see if it helps. Can't hurt!
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Last edited by The Prophet; 12-20-2010 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010   #2
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Re: Cold Starting a Hinckley Bonneville

Wow! Meriden Triumphs (and BSA's, Norton's, etc.) were way easier to cold start, relatively speaking. One just had to flood the Amal's until they started copiously regurgitating gas, let one's right leg hit the kick-start lever 2-3 times as if one did NOT really expect the bike to start (just to get that excess of gas sucked in by the engine upon intuitively reaching the max compression point ) and then hit it again with all one's "now or never" might... as if one's life (aka the respect of fellow riders) depended on it.

Should that Swiss Winter protocol fail -it seldom did-, we had (still talking about the mid-60's) a can of local, magical chemical (brand name long forgotten) to spray straight into the carb inlets (no, we did NOT use air filters back then).

Said protocol and occasional spray (+ a shot or two of pure malt to de-ice the riders, yours truly included) NEVER let anyone down at temps well below freezing point.

Those were the days. Best.

Ol' Jamie

Last edited by Jamie; 02-15-2010 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010   #3
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Re: Cold Starting a Hinckley Bonneville

Oh yeah, i remember the olden days as well. Tickling the Amal's was an art form, and it was Ether that we sprayed into the carbs on super cold days. It always reminded me of when I had my tonsils taken out as a young kid, you never forget that ether smell. Morons would spray way too much, and a nice firebolt would result. Fun stuff.

Anyway, as I recall, the ability of your bike to start on first kick was also a very accurate measure of your manhood... or not!

Actually, if the stuff I said is adjusted right, the cold starting is easy as pie. Turn the key on, straighten the bike up, pull out the enricher knob, and hit start. Varooom!

Most folks have two major things wrong. A.) The idle is adjusted too high, leaving a gap between the butterfly and carb wall, letting in too much air, or B.) The rider plays with the throttle grip, thinking wrongly that it is activating an accelerator pump. it isn't of course, but it IS letting in unwanted air, and defeating the attempt to start in the cold.

What could be even easier? EFI.

Ride Safe!

Bob
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Old 02-17-2010   #4
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Re: Cold Starting a Hinckley Bonneville

After posting this, I thought about it for a while, and then realised that maybe I'm "talkin' the talk", but not "walkin..."

So...

26 Degrees F here (-3.3C). Very windy, but sunny.

My bike has not been out of the garage - to the best of my memory - since Thanksgiving weekend, back in November. I've been travelling a lot as you know (Excuses!!), so I've negleted to remove the battery and hook it to the Battery Tender, nor did I put any "Sta-Bil" in the tank yet. So, thats all of December, all of January, and up to mid-February untouched.

Found the keys, moved some stuff that was blocking the bike, rolled it out of the garage.

Key on - check
Kill switch off - check
Fuel enricher lever pulled out - check
Sidestand up - check
In Nuetral - Check
Get bike up and level. A little shake / boogie side-to-side - Check

Hit Starter button... grr, grr, grr varoo...nothing

Try again. Hit Starter button grr, grr Varoom!!

So Ok, it started on the SECOND try! But, not bad for 2.5 months sittin', no battery charger, and no Sta-Bil.

Better news. I let it run for about three minutes, shut it off, went inside and changed into my winter riding gear, and went for about a 25 minute ride.

Wonderful! Plenty of snow and ice on the ground, but the streets are at least say 95% clear, and dry. You MUST keep yer eyes on the road. I DID go through an icy layer on a back road, roughly about 1/4 mile of it, but the Metzelers took it well. It was funny looking at the facial expressions of folks driving towards me from the opposite direction. They all had that "What the---" look, so maybe I gave 'em something to talk about at dinner.

Anyway, she started immediately on the second try, then ran faultlessly afterwards, zero complaints. Now I can say I "walked the walk!"

I suggest maybe check the idle speed, consider the pilot jet re-size, don't touch that throttle grip, and adjust the mix screws for a good "Cold" startin' bike.

Ride Safe (and warm)!

Bob
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