The Prophet

Ho boy...

Harley to Introduce 12 Motorcycle Models in India - ABC News

My prediction: Massive, enbarrassing failure. But then again... I don't own a large iconic Motorcycle Company, so what do I know?

First, a tiny minority of the extremely rich will purchase HD's in India... just because they can. Then the sales will stop stone cold dead.

Biggest issue? No where to ride. This is why there are a zillion tiny step-through, scoots, and 90CC tiny bikes in India.

Also: How is this attracting the "younger" sportbike crowd. This reeks of despiration, and ... bad move.

Fact is: Anyone in India who really wanted a Harley Davidson could have bought one at any time. There are also Ferrari's, Aston Martins, and assorted other high performance vehicles in India... but how many?

There are also many, many India based motorcyle websites, none of which are interested in huge ungainly hogs. As stated prior, there is no where to ride such a beast.

I hope this doesn't close the coffin on HD, but it seems like this is the only new strategy we've seen lately. Being near Milwaukee, maybe they are drinkin' way too much beer at these meetings?

Has anyone at HD Headquarters noticed that the numerous other Motorcycle manufacturers are not using the "India" secret as their saving grace?

I've said it many times before - In China and India, riding a motorcyle is considered extremely lower class, as in one step above poverty and pedaling a push-bike. Anyone who "makes it" loses the little scoot right-quick and buys a car in these countries.

Go to YouTube and search for "Motorcycle"... "India" and view the street scenes. Now imagine for a moment trying to manuever an 800 pound HOG through this mess of traffic and populace. Good Luck!

Ride Safe!

Bob

__________________

• A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving. ~Lao Tzu
• Motorcyles are not my whole life, but they make my life whole. ` me

motowebmaster

I've never been to India, but do some business there and about to kickoff another project in Mumbai. It seems that parts of India are "at odds" with the crowded population we are aware of. Time will tell I guess, but this guy looks happy:

Jamie

India is a country, not a strategy.

Just let's look back at Royal Enfield. A prestigious UK manufacturer (the 750cc Interceptor viewed by many as the BEST parallel-twin of the era) that went belly up in the late 60's and whose name survives today only thanks to what used to be its Indian licensee: The made-in-India 500cc single Royal Enfield Bullet, virtually unchanged since 1950.

Maybe history will repeat itself

Jamie

The Prophet

Hey Jamie, great to hear from you. How's that new Thunderbird going? I'm jealous! Any long trips yet?

Anyway...

As stated prior, let’s hope that this doesn’t turn out to be the final straw in the demise of Harley Davidson. FYI, I am most likely purchasing a Road King later this year (finally!), so I don’t have any “Harley Bash” fever, just stating an opinion based on what reading and experience I’ve done, as all of us are. I actually like the Harley touring bikes for what they are designed for... touring. I just can't comprehend the "lifestyle" silliness, or the repellent elitism displayed by some of the owners. Fortunately I can look down my own nose at them, as I own a Triumph!

Yes, agreed, there are many, many single cylinder, Royal Enfield 350 and 500 cc “Thumpers” in India, most unfortunately barely capable of reaching 60 MPH. As we all know, they sell them here in the US of A as well, although I’ve never seen one anywhere but at the International Bike Shows. Honestly, I've never seen a one on the street or at any rallies or events. Wonder who buys these in the US?

I’ve personally been to India roughly six or seven times over the past five years, as we have factories in New Delhi and Bombay (Mumbai). I will be there again in April this year, so we’ll see how many Harleys I can spot! I opine that it’s a HUGE stretch from a 350 cc thumper to a 1800cc mega-hog. Not to be racial or ethnic, but let’s not forget the size and strength factor comparing average riders in India to say, HOG riders in the USA.

Did anyone state that India wasn’t a country? I missed that. Sorry.

Horrid traffic, roads and infrastructure. They promise huge road improvements, but then again, they have been promising this for 40 years! Good ol' Politics and corruption. Having been there, the BEST roads in India would be considered pot-hole nightmares here in the states.

http://users.rio.com/tynda/Page345.html

Quote from the below link: “The bikes available in India are all small cc. The Enfield 535 is the largest displacement bike available. Most are 125’s and 250s’ and 350’s. They have marvelous names such as Yezdi, and Rajdoot, and Bajaj. Suzuki and Honda also have a presence marketing their wares as Suzuki Maruti and Hero Honda. While there are a lot of bikes, their technology is all largely older.” http://mondaugenslaw.blogs.com/mondaugenslaw/2006/04/motorcycling_in.html

A discussion Board with actual folks from India…
http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/aug/27/auto-harley-davidson-to-expand-in-india.htm
Quote from the below link: “Even so, the estimated seven million unit size of India's two wheeler market, the second-largest after China, indicates a tendency for users to be more concerned with the functional use of motorized two-wheelers, than for the classic motorbike rider feeling of having man, machine and nature dissolving into one single throbbing, racing, exhilarating, wind-lashed entity on the highway.

"Unlike in the US, where motorbike users mostly buy their machines for the love of the experience, in India it is largely a issue of cheaper, convenient, transport," http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KI15Df04.html

110% Import Tax!!! The entry level 883 Sportster for USD$14,000! Note as well that any comments from the Harley marketing folks on their "great" experiences in India might be... slightly biased(!).

More on driving around in Mumbai (Bombay)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703882804574641761067619046.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

http://www.iexplore.com/cityguides/India/Mumbai+(Bombay)/Do's+and+Don'ts

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifting-gears/22781-driving-mumbai.html


We are all 100% entitled to our opinions and slant on this, and I’ll stick firm to my original prediction… bound for failure. From a positive perspective though, let's also hope that HD picks up on this early, and ego's don't fog over the insight and strategy. We definitely don't want to see HD go down the tubes, or get bought out temporarily by some Chinese investment group.

I watch Harley very, very carefully lately, as I said earlier, I intend to buy a Road King this year for cross country touring. I don't want to end up a potential orphan like a Buell, Saab, Pontiac, Plymouth, Hummer, etc. owner, so I am extremely concerned about the long-term strength of the company, as I would suspect many other potential customers are.


Ride Safe! (and watch those pot-holes!)

Bob

Jamie

GWB used to wonder why the Indians, Pakis and other ethnic pieces of the post-colonial puzzle there were still having disputes about deluxe sweaters, scarves and jackets. Until one of his advisors eventually had the courage to tell him that Cashmere is actually a piece of land.

Hence my allusion to India being a country.

So, the HD brass, probably more out of a mixture of ignorance, complacency and arrogance (their three major -- and vaguely redundant--traits) than out of beer mugs saw a few stats about India, already common --and dated--knowledge amongst ALL US-based multinational (I used to work for one!) companies and mistook what they saw in those stats for a freshly-canned strategy.

How dumb!

And remember the previous strategy? Yesssir, there actually was one: Penetrate the Western European sport bike niche via the acquisition of (financially ailing) MV Agusta, the prior Rotax-powered Buell attempt being gently brushed aside as, ultimately, what was left of Buell. And MV is now up for re-sale at a massive discount off Harley's cash splash.

How dumber are they gonna be next time they get a chance to "strategize"?

Jamie

Speedtrip

My Triumph dealer also sells Royal Enfield bikes. I like them, very basic. I've thought about getting one a few times just to ride to work and putt around on.

The Prophet

Jamie - you are absolutely right on with this. Maybe the dangerous combination of beer and bratwurst effects brain cells? Seems like any "strategy" they (HD) have come up with in the past few years appears as very strange and ineffective. Maybe the collective Doo-Rag is tied a bit too tight? Again, let's wish 'em the best, but there is also something about someone upstairs "helping those that help themselves". These ideas seem more like cries for help. In retrospect, in one of those articles I posted, they (HD) state that they are predicting sales of 100 bikes the first year. Wippy-Do. I thought the expectations were significantly higher, so I'm wrong once again!!! (#1,276,543).

Re: Royal Enfields - Speed and Jamie - I agree, these RE Bullets are absolutely cool. I've also looked on occasion, and actually the new ones are EFI equipped, but sadly have ugly, sore thumb, humongous silencers to meet regulatory restrictions... thanks "Loud pipe" advocates! They also have and endless supply of "add-ons" and performance goodies in their catalog. Much like the new Bonneville, you can spend a fortune messing around with these things, both from a bling, and a performance slant. Be forewarned though, again like the new Bonnie, you can spend tons of money , time and effort, but thus far I'd guess the absolute realistic top performance is roughly 90 HP on a Bonneville, and at mucho high RPM's that you'll never use. Great for "Paper" racing with the dyno sheets, and great for peeing, or "mines bigger than your's" contests, but totally useless on the backroads. If true performance is what one seeks, there are tons of other, better bike choices out there, and then you can upgrade the performance and get some real 150+ HP captured in a realistic, usable powerband!

All that said, there are arguably few bikes better than the Bonnie or the Bullet for tooling around the scenic backroads, and/or running weekend errands.

My problem would be the fact that they (The RE Bullets) DO struggle at anything over highway speeds, and 'round here, if you ain't goin' 80mph or so, you'll get run over.

I recall looking at a green 500cc Bullet with a brown solo seat. As I recall, they are only around 5 or 6 grand? Sadly, I have "enough toys" already sez the wife, and a new long-range Touring bike is what I really need right now.

Ride Safe (and download some Sitar music to your iPod)!

Bob

Jamie

Many of the nouveau rich with biking whims, be they located in Russia (been there), Vietnam (ditto) , China (ditto) and India (not yet) already own a "must have" grey market Harley in their stable.

The truly, established rich there with similar biking/ showing-off temptations have a fiscal residence in Switzerland, Luxemburg, Lichtenstein or London City and already own a "must have", locally-licensed Harley in their private, European underground parking lot (Eastern Europeans love the V-Rod, BTW).

The less-than-rich Indians (99.99% of the population) can't afford a Royal Enfield Bullet in the first place, let alone a HD Sporster.

But they 'll soon be able to, won't they ??? Which, bottom line, seems to be HD brass' vision. From a submarine periscope

WRONG! They, the Indians, the Vietnamese's etc. will want to buy CARS , not bikes, as another member here wisely suggested

My point? >>> The "accessible" Indian niche that the HD brass is --belatedly -- aiming at is already filled, claimed and paid for. The less "accessible" one is still about thrifty TRANSPORTATION, not luxurious recreation.

Jamie