The Prophet

Well, it's that time of year again, time to reflect on this past year, and look forward to the new one.

My personal resolution last year was to lose some weight, which I actually did from Jan to about July. Then I got lazy, or forgetful, and actually ended the year about two pounds heavier than the last.
Best excuse: Christmas Season doesn't count?

Anyway, same resolution this year, and I'm off to a good start. My strategy?

1.) Drinks LOTS of water... and I mean lot's. I weigh 212 right now, and I read that you divide your weight by 2 (= 106) and that is how many ounces of water you should drink each day. A gallon is 128 ounces, so I need to drink about a gallon a day. And thus far I'm doing it. Visiting the john a lot though...
2.) Stay away from worthless carbs - white bread, crackers, pasta, rice.
3.) Stay away from sugars and sugary drinks / soda.
4.) Eat lots of fish Vs. Red Meat.
5.) Snack on only fresh fruits and vegatables. Cut out chips and pretzels, salty stuff.
6.) Get back on the treadmill, go for long walks, take the stairs Vs. Elevator, etc.

So far, great. I can tell my beltline is getting "less tight", I have significantly more energy, etc. What also helped is last year I was diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, so I went to a Sleep Clinic twice, and now I have an air pump thing that I need to wear while sleeping. Helped a ton. Now I sleep just about all the way through a night, Vs waking up a dozen times, no more snoring, and I no longer nod off at daytime meetings (maybe the meetings are more exciting?).

We also bought a new bed set over the New Years weekend. We did try out the new Temper-Pedic, but frankly we thought it was waaay to firm, and works best if you are a "back" sleeper, and never move. Many folks swear by them, just not me & the wife. We settled on a Sealy Postur-pedic set with natural foam pillowtop, which is fantastic. This helped a lot.

Any further suggestions?

Closer to home, we all need to take ourselves a lot less seriously on these Internet Forums. I see way too many folks getting bent out of shape over nothing, and / or pee'd off because they consider themselves "Experts" at one thing or another, and someone disagrees. Big deal.

Here's a site with some funny descriptions of various Internet Forum types, whom we all recognise. Which one are YOU?

Flame Warriors Home

With regards to various "Experts" on these motorcycle forums:

1.) My definition of an internet "expert" is someone who decided to pick a moment in time at which they stopped learning, and felt the egocentric need to "pontificate" and share their assumed great knowledge onto a captive, anonymous internet audience. Hopefully to a lot of newbies.

2.) In our particular case - motorcycling - do we actually believe that someone with total, genius level knowledge of all things required - design, engineering, physics, thermal dynamics, chemistry, etc. - would choose to spend all day on an internet forum, sharing his vast storehouse of information and experience with everyone? You would think that one of the major (Honda, Yamaha, Triumph, BMW, etc.) manufactureres would fight over each other to recruit these guys!! Unfortunately, spending enormous amounts of money on aftermarket add-ons isn't exactly Value Engineering, or designing towards a market niche or price point! So sadly, these experts never seem to have a job, and the surplus of available time makes things worse.

3.) Lastly, you might note that NONE of these 24/7 internet "experts" have any provinence, or track record. Where ARE all the unbelievably great and fast bikes they have built "over the years"? Where ARE all the honors, accolades and trophy's that resulted from this vast and unending knowledge? Hmmm? Nor do they have a motorcyle related business, or they would be busy attending to it. Wonder why?

All that said, again let's never, ever take ourselves too seriously, and in this forum anyway, let's vow never to cow-tow to any self proclaimed "experts" (and there WILL be some!) who may suddenly appear. Taken with a miniscule grain of salt, and taken as yet another OPINION (and rightfully so), the comments and suggestions are much easier to digest. The best defense is arguably to ignore these folks, and they eventually go away due to lack of hero worship, gang mentality, or man-crush bait, all of which they thrive on. There are plenty of other forums that thrive on these style of guys, unless they were tossed out of them, which happens occasionally.

We all know a lot of "stuff" about bikes, otherwise we wouldn't have such a passion for them. Most folks on this particular forum have been riding for a long time, so the knowledge base is pretty solid. Thus far, no need for any "know-it-alls", just a good mix of opinions and perspectives on things, which is fantastic.

The only guy I know of that knows "everything" is the guy waay, waay upstairs... or Santa Claus! Other than that, we're all equal.

Most of all, and most importantly... have fun!

Best of luck, health and happiness in 2010 to everyone.

Ride Safe!

Bob

__________________

• A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving. ~Lao Tzu
• Motorcyles are not my whole life, but they make my life whole. ` me

Jamie

Pleasant and thoughtful post (I, for one, am way underweight BTW .)

Thanks

Just wish ("Happy New Year 2010", right?) there were more active members/posters in here.

When I scroll back, the contents of this forum read like four or five penpals (yours truly proudly included?) exhibiting touch-and-go affinities. Which is great. At least comforting, no doubt.

Now, don't we want to attract new participants? And if we do, how best do we pursue attractiveness ?

I can only blow my top about Harley and its management so much

Best. Jamie

The Prophet

I have no idea why we cannot seem to attract any new posters. I know we have a significant group of "Lurkers" and visitors but why they don't choose to post and participate is anyone's guess.

Moto has the background and experience to tell us, I haven't a clue.

One thing I HAVE noticed though - the "ratio" of members/posters on these Motorcycle related forums seems like a norm of say 100/1. It appears that many folks JOIN forums, but only one out of a hundred actively post? Possibly less.

I know I'm not the greatest guy in the world, and very often not the most pleasant, and certainly not the most knowledgable by far, but I can't believe (someone back me up here!!!) that I am that repulsive that my threads and posts turn folks away?

Harley bashing is an old, worn out sport. Kind of like making fun of the successful older brother. They DO make themselves very easy targets though. When you're the loudest, folks like to put you in your place. ("Tall Poppy" syndrome - look it up.)

I try not to make fun of Harley bikes, as they do have a place in the overall scheme of things. I also try hard not to target or make fun of any individuals, but rather the concept and wierd idealism - "Freedom of the Open Road" - baloney spewed by crafty marketing folks. I believe posting opinions about say Harley Vs. Ducati with regards to technology is more meaningful that flaming an individual poster simply because he happens to ride a Harley. Last I looked, we are ALL riders, facing the exact same challenges on the road, the exact same new legislation, etc. Focus on the bike, the technology, the ride, and the sport, not the individual rider sez me.

Lastly, ridiculing and poking fun at the HD management folks is not in any way connected to the riders, and obviously, they have earned the derision.

I guess we need to decide what the Forum is all about? If you peruse many other bike sites, and take away the horrid and time-wasting Religious and Political flaming wars, then half the "members" go away.

I know (through internet forums) many "posters" from other sites, and have invited them over. Time will tell.

Other things to consider:

• It's winter. North of say the Mason/Dixon line, many riders have put the bikes away for the winter, and moved on to something else.
• It's winter. This is traditionally the time of wholesale internet flaming and nastiness, as the "Zen" of riding is on hold for many, and tempers get touchy, and flare. I know I need a ride badly.
• The economy. It's hard to calculate, but obviously we have significantly fewer riders at this point in time than say a year ago... two years ago. The troops are dwindling. I noticed this a lot last summer and fall while out on the road. There are dramatically fewer riders out there compared to say 04/05?
• I personally see other Motorcyle Websites crumbling as well. If not only from the reduction in numbers, then from the overall reduction of respect and common courtesy extended to fellow riders. Some uber-nasty folks out there who may have seen one too many "B" movie biker films, and try to emulate the actors by putting on a "bad-ass" persona. Doing this on the internet seems... creepy? Strange? Eventually these psuedo toughs find themselves alone not only in "Virtual" life, but in "real" life as well. This whole B.S. scene is the responsibility of Owners, Administrators and Moderators, but sadly, as sites get desperate for "clicks"... standards get lowered.

Anyway, getting way too wordy here. More links? Everyone commit to bringing in three members this year? Get the word out there!!

Let's get some suggestions and ideas on the table!!!

LURKERS! Stop hiding behind the scenes awaiting your strategic moves... let's hear from you!!!

In closing, yes, it HAS been nice, and since we are so small, the level of mutual respect and courtesy has been fantastic. We've had our fair share of fun disagreements and arguments as well, but not to the point of disrespect or resorting to virtual "bad-ass" tactics, which would be funny actually.

I say we should all very carefully choose two or so friends and ask them to join, and actively participate!! Leave any self proclaimed "Experts" out of it though... please. There are far too many of these guys out there already.


Ride Safe!!

Bob

Jamie

Bob dear ("dear" being an english-english way, like " quite frankly", usually used to preface reproach) , my post was NOT about turning folks away , was it?

It was about attracting them in the first place

NOW your three or four most loyal penpals here now rush (as I am) or will want to (please do ! ) rush to re-assure you that there's nothing that repulsive (your adjective) about your personal/personable demeanour on this forum.

Hope you feel consolated if not re-assured or plain revived

The Prophet

I found this while doing some searching for how various internet discussion forums evolve. Wow... does this sound 100% familiar.


"THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF INTERNET DISCUSSION FORUMS
Every site seems to eventually go through the same cycle, unless carefully administrated and monitored:
1. Initial enthusiasm - a few people join and introduce themselves, and gush a lot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls.

2. Evangelism - people moan about how few folks are posting to the forum, and brainstorm recruitment strategies.

3. Growth - more and more people join, more and more lengthy threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up.

4. Community - lots of threads, some more relevant than others; lots of information and advice is exchanged; posters help other posters as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with generosity and patience; everyone—newbie and experienced alike—feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and sharing opinions.

5. Discomfort with diversity - the number of messages increases dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 1 threatens to quit if ‘other’ people don’t limit discussion to person 1’s pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more time and space is wasted complaining about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; everyone gets annoyed. Aggressive members dominate and steer most topics towards self-interest areas.

6a. Smug complacency and stagnation - the purists flame everyone who asks an ‘old’ question or respond with spite to any serious posts; newbies are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen by private messages and are limited to a few participants; the purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each other, fostering a solid gang mentality and keeping possible unflattering threads off the forum.

Or sometimes…

6b. Purgatory - a few angry people quit in a huff; the rest of the participants stay near stage 5, with stage 6 popping up briefly every few weeks; many people wear out their second or third ‘delete’ key, but the forum drags on unhappily ever after."

end of quote.


Again.. wow! I could easily name a few sites that are EXACTLY like #'s 5 and 6. Isn't it fascinating that whatever the circumstance, someone always seems to have taken the initiative and made an observation or study. I believe this is the basis of knowledge, and also what eb volves into "civilisation".


At any rate, it appears we are at # 1.9, or #2 (in red). Lets hope we never reach #5!!!!


Ride Safe (and civilised)!

Bob


Jamie - no offense taken, nor served. I was being facetious... I hope!

Speedtrip

Where's the step where we accuse Shawn of being master of the underworld and start our own forum?

Jamie

My proverbial evangelism set aside , I unfortunately have to agree with Bob's "natural life cycle" post.

See? Since 2004, I have been fairly active on six Rocket III forums (incl. an Italian one and a French one where I used to serve as a moderator) and I have seen them evolving in the same manner, some more precipitously than others. Even the one I helped launched and have remained loyal to now shows signs of approaching phase # 5 of the cycle, I am afraid.

So, if it's indeed a natural evolution... or obsolescence, I suppose nothing can stop it .

Regards. Jamie

The Prophet

Interesting points both...

Shawn better pipe in quick, or the Revolution Begins!!!!

I don't necessarily think the degradation/gravitation to crap is inevitable. I suggest that maybe there are a few preventative measures to consider, or safeguards maybe?

1.) Are the affected sites run by absentee landlords? This probably doesn't help. Is the main focus on 100% profit? Or enthusiam for the sport? Big difference IMHO.

2.) From what I've seen, if the moderators make the site their personal playground, and delete/edit any posts that disagree with their personal opinions = very bad.

3.) There seems to be a ton of unhappy, spiteful, bitter folks out there in cyberland, just looking for the right atmosphere to pounce. Seems like these degrading forums are nirvana for many of them. Maybe we can learn to recognise these unfortunates, and take preventive measures. More often than not, I think a simple ignore helps, as flaming is no fun if a fire doesn't result.

4.) Motorcycling / Riding seems to be one of those unique activities that has 1001 different reasons for being, and each of those 1001 reasons has maybe another 1000 variations. Inflexible thinkers are floored by this concept, and fight hard to convince (read "force") everyone that their particular reason is the only one. Handle these guys with extreme care.

5.) Technically, these downward spiraling bike forums are in most cases a travesty. Nowhere else is there such obviously incorrect, and downright "Bad" information exhanged and pontificated outright. That said, anyone who would go onto an internet forum and entrust their hard earned cash and bike to an unknown "know-it-all" pontificating poster probably deserves the life lesson. Think about it for a moment. If a guy really, truly, and actually had unbelievably vast knowledge and experience in motorcycle performance/technology, etc. Wouldn't that same person be happilly and willfully (and busily?) employed and putting that wonderful knowledge to work? Spending all day long fantasizing about telling folks what to do with their bikes, is at best sad. Go to a reputable Bike Shop, or get advise from your dealer.

I find that you can easily tell the difference between an experienced, knowledgable professional, and a hack. The professional totally respects your questions, and answers politely, suggesting a few options based upon your particular riding style, long term goals, etc. He is there willing to help YOU, and listen to YOU, not bolster his own ego.

The "hack" has a short fuse, get sarcastic and condescending very quickly, and cannot comprehend anything outside of his extremely small and myopic knowledge base. They are also quick to degrade or ridicule anyone who disagress. Run, don't walk, away from these types.

6.) Connected with #5, some of these sites allow a "gang" mentality to foster unmoderated (and sometimes WITH the moderators as members), and posters begin to call on each other to ridicule a newbie or advice seeker. "Hey Joe and Jim, did you read what this idiot posted?" Strength and protection from harm percieved in numbers, the enticing bait of many a street gang. Included in this ilk are clueless types who relate Motorcycling to a "Tough-guy", "bad-ass" mentality. Funny.

7.) Obviously Religious and Political threads are like wet dynamite. In my experience, I've yet to see a single one result in anything but bad... bad... bad. Irresistable bait for unhappy, bitter folks.

8.) A rehash somewhat of #7 above, but bad-mouthing another persons country of origin is never, ever a good idea. The USA is obviously a huge target for this type of garbage, and these threads always end badly, with all parties involved hurt. Ten years or so from now, when China becomes the wealthiest and most powerful country (unless we change things quick!) in the world, I would guess that many of these same habitual USA flamers will be longing for the past, and begging for US assistance. Yes, we (the USA) probably get involved with more than we need to globally, but a.) someone's gotta do it!, and b.) the actions of a few high office political folks does not necessarily describe the personality and character of all of the the citizens of that country. I worked in Indonesia for a while. The political rulers at that time were billionaire's, corrupt, evil, torturing bastards... the local folks were the nicest and most polite I've ever dealt with.

9.) Sites without a goal, theme or objective are the first to fall. We all need a means to get back to ground zero, or a means to reshuffle the deck and start over. I would bet big that many of these now crap sites never knew what hit them... and more than likely continue to think and believe that all is well. Aren't most losers.. "losers" because of this concept?

Obliviousness is bliss.

10.) In the end, maybe it's significantly up to us as posters, threaders, and site members. We all came from somewhere else, so logic sez more good folks will come. Trolls, political hacks, and "know-it-alls" need to be nipped in the bud, and the focus needs to be on community, riding, and the sport. Most of all, and possibly by far the most important factor - HAVING FUN.

Ride Safe!

Bob

Speedtrip

It's easy to get caught up in the negativity out there. I sez there is a world of useful information on these moto sites. I've ran to my computer many a time looking for solutions to a problem that has me stumped, it's nice to have a large community to draw from. Sorting out the good from the bad kinda happens with everything not just web communities.

I will add that there is a noticeable difference between a website with an engaged owner who is also an enthusiast versus a just for profit operation.

The Prophet

[QUOTE=Speedtrip;3593]...It's easy to get caught up in the negativity out there. I sez there is a world of useful information on these moto sites. ...QUOTE]

Sorry Speed, I got carried away there, but I agree, and you are 100% correct.

The Challenge is: getting the accurate information that you specifically asked for, and developing the ability to separate the “wheat from the chaffe”.

Granted, yes, there are of course very talented, educated and wonderfully experienced guys out there, making every effort to help others, and all deserved kudo’s to them!!

At this point let me make it very clear that I would NEVER claim to be an expert at anything, but I have devoted a lifetime to engineering, mechanics, cars and bikes, and I DO possess maybe a tiny, small inate ability to recognize bad baloney when I see it.

The hardest part in these forums is trying to figure out which ones are for real… and which ones are cyberworld fantasy “mechanics”. Access to a keyboard, a vivid imagination, and the ability to wholesale blarb out tired old myths, twisted, fabricated fact, and downright dangerous advice is all that is required for the latter.

Here are some very recent “gems” that many inexperienced folks may have thought were correct, as they came directly from the mouths of extremely highly rated “Forum Experts”…

• “… raising the compression ratio has absolutely nothing to do with improving low end torque, any idiot knows that!”
• “Volumetric Efficiency? The cylinders are always filled 100%, especially at low RPM’s, that’s basic Mechanics 101!”
• “The K&N filters are horrible. Your stock filter will flow much more air than these.”
• “ The new Triumph Thunderbird motor loves to be revved, and is strictly a high RPM style motor.”
• “Bigger carbs and bigger intake valves will ALWAYS result in more power.”
• “The only way to get real power from these motors is to over-ride the rev limiter. More revs always means more power.”
• “...a carbureted bike will beat an EFI bike anytime, hands down…”

And so on. The most disturbing part about all of this is that the poor lackeys that always seem to latch on to these “Know-it-all” types all immediately believe this stuff as gospel, and yet another otherwise fine motorcycle is ruined.

I also suggest that:

a.)Owning a Website that sells bike parts and accessories does not automatically raise ones status immediately up to “Expert”. Granted, some (many?) are great guys and very knowledgable and helpful. Others? Not so much. You can never purchase experience and knowledge, it must be earned. Listener beware.

b.)I have much greater admiration for someone who has developed a balanced “performance” improving system, component, part, modification, etc., by means of injecting science and technology, utilizing “right” thinking (Peter Williams) and an “out-of-the-box” approach, making, machining or forming the component by hand (John Britten), enhancing and further developing what the original design engineers had offered (Kevin Cameron), and so on. This compared to merely purchasing a series of “off-the-shelf” readily available commercial items, which in fact anyone with a credit card can also do. To me this is “following the herd”, not “developing”. The “following” in itself is not the issue, it is the idea that the purchaser has suddenly become one of the “elite” by mimicking their new man-crush heroes, and can now join the ranks of the “know-it-alls” and start blarbing out advice wholesale. (see humorous - but harmful - quotations above).

c.) What many self proclaimed "expert" folks on these various Forums proclaim as “High Technology” is more often than not very old school, pre EFI, Tuneboy, MAPing and CDI “backyard mechanic” stuff. Big Bore kits? High Compression pistons? Bigger Intake valves? Bigger carbs? Folks were doing this stuff way, way back in the 1920’s. Motorcycle technology has advanced a thousand fold since then. We need some new and fresh material!

d.)Last but not least (finally!)- I am absolutely floored at how little some folks know about how to properly read and interpret a Dynamometer Chart / Graph, and how little those same folks know about creating and developing streetable powerbands, yet they spout off confidently as if they do. 99.9% of the deep pocketed wrench owners only look at the peak HP at peak achievable RPM, which realistically will never be used on the street. These “Paper Racers” don’t cause much harm by themselves, and I guess this is a small step laterally from “Benchracing”, but unfortunately trusting yet naïve newbies get sucked in because it is so easy to obtain those peaky numbers Vs properly developing a street performance system. Just open up the checkbook wide and buy the old school “bigger is better” components, and away ya’ go! Plus… “Instant Expert” status!

Something to always consider: The Placebo Effect. After spending say $5000 on various bolt-on, store bought "Performance" parts, not too many guys are going to be man enough to finally admit: "Man, did I screw up that bike big time". Instead, we hear about how a long-stroke, or square bore/stroke bike "loves to be in the high RPM range". More often than not, these bikes result in a super small powerband, that required constant shifting and high revs to maintain the tight torque to HP peak range. Very bad for street riding, but super great for "Paper Racing".

You are 100% right though Speed. Yes, I agree that there are numerous good sites out there I’m sure (Motorcyclesintl.net is a good one!), as well as many great guys willing to help. I wasn’t very articulate on that point at all. Trouble is – the last sight I was involved with has had an unbelievable Exodus. I’d estimate that 95% of the folks that were on the forum one year ago… are gone.. vanished. Where’d they go? What’s left behind are a small handful of die-hards, a ton of new members, and of course the omnipotent loud-mouthed experts who now have some fresh meat to play with. That bsaid, good conversations are becoming harder and harder to find. If I want abuse, I can go talk to the Mrs.!

Life goes on, the big wheel keeps on turnin’.

Let’s work on getting’ some of the better, open minded folks to join us, and keep a close watch out for “Experts” with incorrect, stale, "ego-puffer" information to sell.

I’d much rather hear “I suggest”, or “maybe you might try”, than “This is the only way!” or better yet: "You don't know what you're talking about.." (my personal favorite!).

Detecting these opening statements is an excellent method of weeding out the “Professionals” from the “Hacks”. The better guys know through experience that there are always a dozen different ways to reach a very similar destination. Help “the customer” instead of trying to validate and promote your personal creation. The "pro's" will definitely be the most willing to help out the individual Vs. protecting their “turf”. ‘Nuff said…

Ride Safe!

Bob