Speedtrip

Things are tough all over.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/to...-downturn.aspx

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-Shaun-

SidecarFlip

...and early this year Harley buys MV Agusta who is credit arrears 25 million to it's suppliers.

Willie & Company must ascribe to the George Bush school of financial wisdom.

The great American Icon may be the next dinosaur.

Speedtrip

HD had a good decade what with all the boomer's going out and buying the Hog of their dreams and playing weekend pirate. They got very big and very corporate on us.

For years around here the only HD dealer was a small storefront run by an old biker with a few models on the floor. Now we have a multi million dollar dealership with ten of every bike they make and 5000 sq ft of accessories.

I think there will always be the hardcore group of HD riders and bikers that will buy nothing but Harley and keep the brand alive but HD may have to go back to a more modest lifestyle.

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-Shaun-

SidecarFlip

I strongly suspect we are all going to go back to a more modest lifestyle......Emphasis on the modest.....

motowebmaster

I've still got faith. The institutional monies invested in "recreational toys" stock haven't moved in three weeks. The price is $11.90 now, and I'd expect it to drop further as more investors get discouraged with the business model. The institutional money currently invested in the stock probably can't find buyers, or are unwilling to take a loss at the moment. Either way, their fundamentals aren't good right now for the little guy.

Maybe H-D should put up some pics of their apparel on their website, and say it's Ok to own it without an actual bike

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Shawn - MotoWebmaster
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SidecarFlip

HD does have nice apparel. Problem is, it's all manufactured in some third world hovel at sweatshop wages and sold for extravagant prices.

Take a trip through the Harley shop and look at the labels...especially the origin of manufacture...you'll be amazed.

Very little, if anything, is manufactured here and that includes the parts from the parts counter. 2 years ago I bought a HD part for my Bonnie...a clutch cable rubber boot. Was special order and when I ordered it, the counter person asked me if I wanted the premium one or the standard one. I inquired as to the difference to which he explained that the Premium one was made in Japan and the Standard one was made in Taiwan, ROC. go figure. I ordered the Japanese one. It was a few bucks more but I know Japanese stuff is quality. Sure is a far cry from the cheap trinkets and crappy transistor radio's Japan churned out in the early 60's.

Now, go to your local rice burner shop and do the same thing. Cruise the clothing racks and look at the labels. You will be amazed. Sure there are third world manufacturers but there is American made apparel as well. Look at the parts....American manufacturers are present both aftermarket and behind the parts counter. Something is wrong and I know what it is. HD off shores it's product for MAXIMUM profit at the expense of American workmanship and all the while claims it's the American icon while the Japanese embrace American workmanship and support the American worker in at least some percentage, unlike HD.

Just for that reason, I'd never buy a Harley. It's not an American Icon. It's an American fallacy. Willie G & company might be 'living' the American dream but it's at the expense of their fellow American citizens and their livelyhoods.

The Prophet

Harley needs to re-invent themselves... and quick. The doo-rag a-wearin', leather totin', accessory laden squids may or may not survive the economic downturn. If they do - Harley will survive. That, is a big gamble.

If the squids are affected by the downturn and recovery, they're going to have to find new careers, which will be tough. Not too many companies will be looking for super high salaried self absorbed folks who produce nothing, but have super slick, MBA developed, pre-canned excuses for business failures. Chances are, no one will be able to afford these types anymore. Will there soon be guys in tattered Armani suits selling pencils on the streets? The over-stock of used bikes will then continue to grow, and any potential buyers will obviously look at the bargains to be had Vs purchasing an expensive US$20K or much more new model.

If so, Harley will drown unless they find a means to offer better value for less profit. Achievable, but exec bonuses and private parties will need to be curtailed for now.

I wish them well, as they ARE an American symbol and icon. For years (decades) they have done well with over-priced and under-engineered bikes, and have done an excellent job in marketing them to squids and RUB's. It's time to get real, drop the attitude, and focus on the genuine riders.

Change the "Freedom through Selfishness" Ad campaigns, drop the doo-rag image, hire some engineers with a 21st Century mindset, and re-evaluate the profit margin on clothing and accessories. Harley needs to wake up and realise that there are plenty of super-high quality, extremely fast, manueverable, and excellent long-distance touring bikes out there that are smooth, quiet, light(er), and offer much more performance wise than the venerable Harley.

A bike does NOT need to be ultra-loud, tempermental, bling-laden, and in-your-face to be enjoyable. Actually, to the knowledgable and experienced, the opposite is true.

History buffs will recall that Harley Davidson survived the Great Depression, while the seeds of doom were deeply set in at Indian at that time due to piss-poor management decisions. Let's not repeat the poor, and self-serving decision making process'.

Here's to say best of luck to 'em, and we hope they make it.

Speedtrip

Saw this link on another board, looks like they will sell some XR1200's over here.


http://www.motorcycledaily.com/24nov..._hd_xr1200.htm

__________________
-Shaun-

The Prophet

I've seen this often in the press lately, and agree that it's an... interesting bike, but I'm somewhat skeptical...

1.) With the amount of great sportbikes currently being produced, and available easily in Europe, is this slightly revamped Sportster a real contender for this genre? How many of these have sold in Europe thus far? Could poor overseas sales and acceptance be the actual reason behind the sudden reversal of plan?

2.) Installing upswept pipes and an uncomfortable crotch rocket seat does not a sportbike make. Is it not still a slow-revving, torquey type 1 bike? Does it not remain under the same restrictions performance-wise as any vertical twin? How will this compare to (and keep up with) the 3 and 4 cylinder, high revving type 2 bikes currently available and well proven? Previous attempts to transform type 1 V-Twins into high sportbike revvers have been disasterous, so why try again?

3.) Race track record thus far - zero. It will be difficult to tempt away the Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, etc. folks away from their brands without some solid successful racing background. Maybe H-D should have developed a viable racer first, then a market?

4.) Will not the doo-ragged, leather clad Harley riders treat these bikes and owners with the same arms length distain they currently treat any other "outsiders". This will not help, but the "image", once again, is something H-D worked very hard to create. Kind of like the unruly and backward class bully now wanting to hang out with the math club guys. Very possible... but it will be difficult.

5.) Why the "peanut" tank? Real sportbike riders like a wider mileage range between stops. Without looking at specs, I'm guessing maybe 120 miles between fill-ups with that smallish reservoir. Standard Handlebars need to be looked at as well. Maybe an inch or so foreward, and 3/4 inch down. The rider "stance" needs to be tilted slightly forward, footpegs rear of center, not the typical half hour ride "cruiser" stance.

6.) Lastly, at least the Adverts show a rider with a sensible FF helmet and riding gear. Huge, huge step forward for H-D.

Let's see how the riding public react with their pocket-books and pens, the real test. Other-wise, it's like an incomprehensibly plotted, foreign but sub-titled, black and white movie. The high-brow critics absolutely love it, but the general populace shrugs it's shoulders and stays away in droves.

SidecarFlip

....lets see. Built in Italy at the MV factory maybe?

Looks similar to the old flat track model with a helluva set of cans attached. I don't want one, but then I'm not in the market anyway.

They are gonna need all the help they can get....and then some.