The Prophet

I guess this wouldn't be a "real" Forum without a very healthy Horsepower vs. Torque, thread (sigh...) so here goes...

Here’s a nicely written deliberation around Horsepower and Torque, and some well done back-up tests and data to illustrate the eventual impact over differing scenarios on a ¼ mile run.

http://performancetrends.com/blog/?p=7

Maybe the largest generator of blanket style, broad brush statements ever, the heated Motorcycle Internet Forum debates rage on endlessly over “Which is better: Torque… or Horsepower�?

"Horsepower ALWAYS wins!!" Say some...
"Torque is King!" Say others...

The final answer perhaps is: There is no definitive answer… it depends!

First of all, there are as many different riding styles and uses for a motorcycle as there are colorful prints of “doo-rags�.

Daily Urban Commuter
Highway Long Range Tourer
Bonneville Salt Flats Top Speed Demon
Occasional Main Street Cruiser
Back Country Twisty’s Enthusiast
Dynamometer Bench Racer
Crazy Street Racer
Chrome Polisher
Internet Forum Peak HP Racer
Weekend Track Time enthusiast
Combinations of a few of the above
Racetrack only bike
Bone stock… I’m Ok if you’re OK rider
None of the Above
Ever Worried Mine’s Biggur ‘n Yers Rider
Other

And so on. We are all very different (I hope!) individuals, and therefore we all require a different approach to high performance tweaking, if any are actually required... or wanted. Bone Stock is always an alternative, and a good one at that.

This helps explain why we’ve taken perhaps the easy way out and consistently stressed “Street Bike� in the Innovation Center Forum, as we can assume this contains the majority or riders here on this forum, and we can hopefully narrow down choices and focus.

Read through the attachment if you will and see if it makes sense to you. Note that once again, in the end (final Graph), the bike with the highest AVERAGE of Horsepower and Torque across the WIDEST RPM Powerband wins out. See attachment for a good example of this. Once again, think "Street Bike".

This makes sense, as it is – as most things in reality are – a calculated compromise, and a pragmatic balance of a number of contributing factors.

Building a Bike for tons of Torque at the bottom, and no top end HP is silly.

Building a Bike for tons of top end HP, but no bottom end torque is just as impractical.

Building a Street Bike with high RPM Horsepower that we will realistically never, ever use is bordering on pathetic. Kind of like a super rich Nerd with a Super-Model trophy wife… yeah, right.

Building a Bike with either of these extremes is relatively easy, and can be done with numerous, easily availble "bolt on" store bought "kit" parts. There are a number of these on the market. Oddly, this path is also the most expensive.

Building a Bike with a carefully balanced, broad powerband, calculated high average power all across the RPM Powerband for best gearing advantage... is the most difficult, and requires the highest level of technology, experience, and knowledge. This requires precise machine shop work, cylinder head flowing, cam profile grinding, optimal compression ratio adjusting, high velocity air flow, best a/f atomisation, best "squish" area development, Valve unshrouding technique, etc., etc. Not as expensive as the conventional Dyno Queen style, but the end result is an absolute beaut of a Street Bike all 'rounder, that'll easily beat the socks off of any Dyno Racer hands down.

Balance; Ying-Yang; Build for inner Zen.

Step One in any of this is performing a painfully honest evaluation of YOUR particular Riding Style, and YOUR specific goals and objectives that match your Riding Style.

It certainly seems like a lot of folks kid themselves into building an overly expensive, High-HP temperamental, high-strung Monster of a Bike, the reality being that they never, ever really have an opportunity to use any of that elusive uber-high RPM HP, as their riding style and habits are vastly different from the fantasy. Great for bragging though… I guess.

Somewhere else in the Innovation Center is a Questionnaire that helps to pull out and display what your actual riding style and goals are, but again, we need to be painfully, and brutally honest in our self-evaluation. Not an easy thing to do at times.

“Hey… who’s that guy in the mirror?�

Maybe we should have someone ELSE do the evaluations of our riding style, to counteract Ego answering?

You be the judge, and as always, feel free to draw your own conclusions!

Ride Safe!

Bob

__________________

• A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving. ~Lao Tzu
• Motorcyles are not my whole life, but they make my life whole. ` me

motowebmaster

My V-Four has some responsiveness, but I still miss the tractor-like traits of my old Triumph Daytona900. Torque would be my vote.

I ride one of the world's smoothest-running machines, and it makes for an easy going ride. If it weren't paid for I'd consider something like the new Sprint GT or an Aprilia RSV4. A used Speed Triple 1050 would be an option as well.

Switching over to the cruiser viewpoint, Torque is one of the reasons why a BMC Bobber is a fun bike. One can feed their brain silly with in-town shots of torque before stopping off at the local coffee shop

That doesn't mean that a ZX-14, Busa, or S1000RR would be in my future either; If I can ever get old enough to afford the insurance on such bikes it would be nice to hit lightspeed once in a while

__________________
Shawn
My Photos

The Prophet

Nicely put, Shawn -

If a 'body has the ways and means to pull it off, maybe owning multiple bikes is a viable methodology to benefit from all of the the different powerband extremes.

As you note, a big, throaty, low seat / High Bar Twin for loads 'o Torque down low, for toddlin' round town, and "stylin'.

Your everyday bike of course... for... every day!

And then maybe a 'busa or some such high HP four cylinder monster for high RPM wind-outs and +100 mph madness runs.

Ideally, you might have a fourth ride: A big, chubby, comfy, fully fitted out Tourer for those moments when nothing but a cross-country tour will do.

In another, more perfect world, we could combine all four into one. But why do I suddenly think that a guy with four or five "running" bikes (all at the same time mind you!) would be by design... single?

Ride Safe!

Bob

Note: I too prefer 'Torque' over high RPM HP numbers any day. I do mainly (85%?) two-up riding with luggage and stuff, so we enjoy having the low end grunt to get us off easily and quickly from a standing start, click reasonable fast through the gears, staying away from the traffic "herd", but yet still enough to very comfortably highway cruise at say 80-85 MPH all day long.

It's only when I ride solo that I try the occassional 100+ MPH runs (always "way, way out" in the deserted countryside. And on a Sunday morning most often), just to "blow out the carbon", and so remind me of what she can do! My righteously modified ol' Bonneville can do both without breaking a sweat.

Ride Safe!

Bob